On Tuesday I read a blog post in which a female blogger made a list of people in her acquaintance she’d put in charge of governing society if she was a monarch. All the people on her list were male. When called on this fact in the comments, she mentioned one woman she knew who she felt was “awesome,” but then proceeded to say she’d listed people she knew who were “wicked smart” and that offhand, she couldn’t think of any other women she’d put in that category.
Typing that just now makes me want to yell and scream and possibly hurt my foot by kicking something unexpectedly hard.
As a woman who is “wicked smart,” let me explain something to those of you who haven’t thought about such things. High-IQ women often do not present in the same way as high-IQ men. That doesn’t mean they’re not just as smart; they just behave differently, in ways that are not typically identified with high intelligence.
For starters, smart women often work very hard to fit in. We blend. We spend a lot of time listening to other people talk. We don’t always put ourselves forward, even when we have expertise or insight about a certain topic. We are not as likely to offer or even form opinions, since we are supposed to be nice and agreeable. We are not as likely to argue. We deliberately choose topics of conversation that don’t show off our intelligence, partly because being an intelligent woman is somewhat fraught in our society and partly because if we want to have a real conversation instead of expound, it often works better to choose a topic in which intelligence doesn’t matter as much. We do much of this unconsciously because it tends to get us better social results, ie people like us more.
Women in general are also not encouraged to be as ambitious as men. We get more flak about being ambitious. People patronize us and tell us we have delusions of grandeur. In many professional arenas, we have to adopt masculine behaviors in order to realize our ambitions, not to mention deal with sexism. We also have to do better than men at the same positions in order to be recognized. And then people will minimize our accomplishments and say catty things about our appearances and personalities. Not to mention, women who want to have kids know they’ll end up with more of the work involved, even if they have full-time careers as well. So high-IQ men are often very “successful;” they might be wealthy or have a fast-track career or a top-notch reputation in academia. High-IQ women don’t always have any of these things because we either chose not to follow ambition in the classic sense or because we felt we should not.
Finally, our society privileges the sciences over the humanities and the arts, and factual knowledge over both raw intelligence (which is more about speed and ability to learn, understand, and synthesize) and emotional/social intelligence. And yet, women are less likely to go into the sciences, less likely to offer up their knowledge in conversation, and more likely to be encouraged to focus on emotional intelligence. And for those of us who have focused on synthesis as opposed to factual memorization, our talents are often entirely overlooked.
The secret land of intelligent women?
My husband and I are a great example of this. By both our assessments, we are more or less equally intelligent. He has a PhD in physics, an important job at Google, and impressive amounts of knowledge on a variety of intellectual subjects. I’ve spent most my time pursuing music and writing and focusing on personal growth and interpersonal issues. It is not uncommon for people to tell me my husband is one of the most intelligent people they’ve ever met. No one ever tells him the same thing about me. He presents himself very differently in social situations, has many of the expected achievements, and studied string theory instead of music, so this doesn’t come as a big surprise.
I didn’t want to talk about this subject because we as a society seem to have a deep discomfort with intelligent women, and talking about it leaves an opening to be personally attacked or categorized as stuck up. I can hear it now: “She’s not as intelligent as she thinks she is, and her husband is just playing up to her big ego.” Admitting to intelligence, at least here in the United States, is not the best way for a woman to gain friends and influence people. And ironically, gifted people tend to be more sensitive, more likely to be perfectionists, and more likely to hold themselves to impossibly high standards…all while suffering from impostor syndrome. But I’m so tired of the misconceptions that abound, and I don’t hear enough women speaking out on this subject, so I felt I had to say something.
There are plenty of very smart women in the world. You might just not realize who they are. So the next time you are listing off smart people you know, think again and consider whether you can add some women to your list.
The Practical Free Spirit 
Thank you for bringing this up, Amy. I’m fortunate to know many super-smart women, and my life would be much less rich if they didn’t show off their brain power.
I asked my wife on our first date because of a joke she made about time dilation. Before that, I didn’t realize how smart she was. Maybe I was the dummy for not seeing it sooner 😉
Definitely not a dummy for asking her out, though! 😉
As a highly intelligent woman (99% on Mensa test), who grew up in a patriarchal country (Eastern Europe), I was so infuriated by the stereotypes and sexism that kept getting pushed down on me and other women in my country that I grew up as a Tomboy. If you had asked me what I am at age 10 I would say a solider or a boy because I could see women were not respected (I was Arya from Game of Thrones, personified.). I can see and understand Amy’s point about women showing their intelligence differently and I know why some try to hide and appear less smart to be liked, but I have to put my foot down say it: DO NOT HIDE WHAT YOU ARE, TO PLEASE SOCIETY. USE WHAT YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT BETTER. Yes, it is true that the #1 non-physical difference between men and women is that men strive to be respected while women strive to be loved, but I think in society’s push to confirm that stereotype, some women may forget their right to be respected and to be respectable.
When it comes to society’s standards, I think glory and public recognition comes to those who make a unique difference for others and for society as a whole. Women’s contributions as child-bearers and caregivers are common and thus go unnoticed. Still I think as women of high intelligence, our gift comes with a responsibility to also create unique value for society, especially if it can also stem from our unique strengths as women. What matters in the end is not how quickly we can think, but how we use that to see beyond what is happening in front of us, to create value despite or through our circumstances and to lead others to improve in the areas we believe and work hard in. If you are into music, do you write, create, publish or lead others to do so? If you are into art, do you enable others to see beyond their typical line of vision through your work? Can you use your gifts to make the world a little better between the day you were born and the day you pass? If you do, then maybe more women will be recognized, and fewer girls will be bullied for their smarts.
Love this! More to say but out of time (because as a highly intelligent woman who does strive to fit in I fill my time with LOTS of things so as to not try to take a drill to my brain to drive away the boredom…) I’ll be back!
I believe this is one of those societal artifacts stemming way back from the dawn of our existence as a social species. The part about not being encouraged to be as ambitious as men strikes a particular chord. I run across that particular notion every now and then. Type ‘men are more expendable than women’ into Google and you’ll get a slew of articles both for and against that theory. Thing is: both sides are correct.
In ancient times when risk taking carried with it a much higher chance of death, yes men were much more expendable. In a society of 100 people with 50 men and 50 women, the next generation will be 50. If the men march off to war and come back, the next generation can be (at best) 50. If the women march off to war and half come back, the next generation can be (at best) 25.
Thus, if there was a risk to be taken, send men to see what’s beyond the next hill, deal with that vicious predator, take down the impossibly big game, and so on. The men that return are rewarded through positive selection since they’ve got IT, whatever IT was that allowed them to survive that risk. The evidence is there in our sexual dimorphisms with men being generally larger, stronger, faster, etc… It’s clear that the majority of challenges faced were physical.
Moving up to modern times, the risk of death has been removed from nearly all risks, especially in the business world. Men and women compete on equal ground with both having the same chance to reproduce, win or lose. Yet, the societal artifact to reward risk-taking men and denigrate risk-taking women is still very much prevalent.
I’m not sure what to do about this other than struggle against it as often as possible. Posts like yours go a long way towards that end. Once again, your insight cuts straight to the quick.
It certainly has started a conversation! 😉
What that blogger said makes me mad too. I have done those same things you have done to assimilate, especially after I skipped seventh grade and was bullied in eighth grade for being the too young, too smart kid.
In addition, the people who present as highly intelligent are not necessarily highly intelligent in all the areas important for leadership.
Good point. Leadership skills don’t always go hand in hand with high intelligence.
And man, skipping a grade sounds brutal.
The first brutal thing was I skipped a grade and nobody told me. I sat in the room with the 7th graders while teachers called out the names of who was in their class. When they finished, I was still sitting there. So I asked the teachers what I should do and one of them went to the office, asked, and came back saying I’d been skipped a grade and which eighth grade class I should go to. So there I went, showing up late, so everyone knew who I was and why I hadn’t been at assembly, the only girl in the class who wasn’t wearing a bra yet.
Yeah, good times.
Yikes! That is truly terrible. I will say, as the parent of a highly intelligent young woman who skipped a grade as well, that for her it was a wonderful thing socially and intellectually. Of course, she was a lot more involved in the process of making that decision!
I do love this blog post, too. Thank you for discussing this openly. It does seem that intelligence is one and the same as output or accomplishment in the minds of many. For those women who have devoted much of their lives to their families and other areas that are not associated with recognizable products or inventions, their intellect may go unrecognized.
Since high intelligence is about so much more than academics — things like differences in emotional wiring as you mention — recognizing who we are remains so important throughout our lives in order for those lives to be rich emotionally.
Hear, hear!
It’s very true that there are different types of intelligences and that society tends to reward business-oriented and science-minded people rather than artists, for example. It is unfortunate but there is still opportunity for gifted people to show what they’re made of and that is what we should focus on. Emotional/social intelligence is just as valid and just as awesome. It’s important to be aware of it within yourself.
Yes, I think a certain amount of it boils down to self esteem and to embracing your own worth regardless of what society says is valuable. Which is, in general, probably one of a free spirit’s biggest (and toughest) jobs.
reading this is wonderful. i find myself tired of hearing (and feeling defensive about) how i haven’t “lived up to my potential” because *other* people assumed i would become a lawyer or a diplomat or some highly-paid professional, when in fact i am a secretary. i have never defined myself by my job: i paint/create, read, write, learn voraciously, take photographs, love to travel, but it seems these qualities just fall by the wayside and will always play second fiddle to the “career choice” – well, i chose a career that allows me to leave work at work so i am able to enjoy the life that remains, which, it goes without saying, doesn’t pay in monetary terms. but, boy, is it rewarding.
I made similar tradeoffs in my career choice, and it sounds like you are leading an awesome life. Not all of us have to have the same priorities, after all! I think I’m going to be writing a follow-up post about ambition and different definitions of success.
Amy, I think your blog does a great job discussing how hard it is to demonstrate intelligence when the only kinds of intelligences that are deemed valuable are man-centric–and that it’s hard to demonstrate our brains when the fields of demonstration are skewed toward aggressive people.
I also think that society cripples women by forcing them to be attractive above all else. It’s hard for girls to compete when they are dieting (denying their brains the glucose necessary for maximum productivity!), or grooming, or shopping.
Thanks for sharing–and I’d like to reach out and slap that woman who couldn’t think of any “wicked-smart” women. I’m sure Marie Curie would join me. 😀
Very good point. Girls are taught from a young age to value their appearance above everything else. I wish I had a link to share about this, but wasn’t there some study done that showed that girls are usually complimented on their appearances and clothes, whereas boys are complimented on their interests and accomplishments?
This is so true. And annoying! Could I PLEASE get complimented on my stunning good looks? Just once? I don’t need to hear how smart/kind I am for the billionth time. And let’s just leave my humility completely off the table. I don’t need to be told over and over how the Dalai Lama could take lessons from me. Enough is enough. I’m gorgeous, ladies. Start treating me like the piece of meat I am.
(Quite seriously, though, it is absolutely true that women are often judged primarily on appearance and men on accomplishments. I believe this to be another artifact of ancient societies.)
It is not uncommon for people to tell me my husband is one of the most intelligent people they’ve ever met. No one ever tells him the same thing about me.
I suppose I’ve never actually said as much to your husband (because frankly I expect his reaction would be, “Tell me something I don’t know!”), but I have no trouble imagining myself telling him that you are one of the most intelligent people that I’ve met.
I think you’re right that it has a lot to do with presentation, though. Certainly you always struck me as “smart”, but I think it was only over the course of several conversations that I began to appreciate exactly how much thoughtfulness and insight you bring to a variety of topics.
Well, thank you, and I think you’ve nailed it on the head. When I met Daniel, I probably had formed the opinion he was really smart within a few minutes. Whereas with you, I had to get to know you better first before forming the same opinion. All in the presentation…and implicit assumptions about intelligence.
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I want to add my support to this sentiment by saying that I also know a ton of brilliant women.
In fact, my girlfriend did a lot of research and wrote this book about the challenges facing women in science and technology:
http://www.amazon.com/Whos-Afraid-Marie-Curie-Challenges/dp/B003R4ZFME/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334297952&sr=8-1
I encourage anyone who wants to better understand to read it!
Looks like an amazing book, Dave! I think someone else recommended it independently over on Google+.
This is to Dave Jackson for mentioning that ‘Who’s Afraid of Marie Curie” book. Thank you. my wife is very interested in that: 1) she’s a scientist, 2) her mentor is obsessed with the role of women in science, particularly chemistry.
Oh for fuck’s sake… that blogger is ridiculous. There are wicked smart women everywhere, she just clearly didn’t even think to look.
I get soooo tired of this outdated mode of thinking, there are women who work in all fields of science engineering, politics, law, etc. All she has to do is look at a paper and she’ll run into Hillary Clinton, Justice Sotameyer, Nobel Laureats, and more who are female.
As a (formerly – Transient Global Amnesia makes my brain work badly) wicked smart woman myself, one who started with engineering classes as an undergrad in the mid-80’s and constantly pissed off the boys by blowing the curve I know it’s hard for a woman to get ahead in STEM fields. But it can be done, as it can in the creative fields, law and medicine, etc.
Attitudes like the bloggers make me furious. They also do a great harm to today’s wicked smart women (by enabling the discrimination and sexism that runs so rampant worldwide) and hurt the wicked smart women of tomorrow by reminding them that it’s not OK for girls to be brainy.
Yes! It definitely depressed me to read, especially given all the recent news of politicians attacking equal pay and contraception, etc. The really sad thing is there are plenty of women who DO present as smart, and even so they have to fight against being overlooked as well.
Brava.
I absolutely love this post, and can relate to many parts of it.
High IQ men also have a very hard time fitting, just FYI. Not saying it’s a harder time, on average, than woman, probably not, but still, we can relate.
Some wicked smart man do get celebrated. Steve Jobs comes to mind. Maybe we should focus on celebrating as many wicked smart women as we can get. I’d start by Virginia M Rometty. She holds a Computer Science degree, and is the head of the company that gave us the Mainframe, the PC, and my job: IBM.
I think Ann Coulter deserves mentioning too, specially for the fact that her adversaries often don’t stop at politely disagreeing, but completely berate her intelligence and deny her very femininity: They will talk incessantly about her Adam’s Apple, call her Man Coulter, and so on. The woman graduated cum laude for Christ’s sake, call her evil all you like, but acknowledge she’s sharp as a shuriken. One of the smartest people I’ve ever seen 🙂
Thanks for bringing up some examples of wicked smart women–I love it! I was really happy to see Emmy Noether brought up in the New York Times a few weeks ago. She was another wicked smart woman and mathematician/scientist.
And yes, very intelligent men definitely face some issues too (I know, being married to one!) I think it’s a different experience, but shares some commonalities that perhaps make it easier to imagine.
What a shame I had never heard of her. I’m correcting this flaw on Wikipedia at this very moment.
I’d like to also mention my favorite *thinker* in general, the psychologist Alice Miller. She died two years ago, but her books have been a constant presence in my home since before I can remember. My mom had the first edition of her first book, Das Drama des begabten Kindes, 1979. I’d definitely have had her ruling the world had I taken it over in time.
Speaking as a gifted young woman, I’ve been struggling to write a blog post on how often I try to “blend in” and the flak I get when I don’t. So thank you for this post; it’s important to see that I’m not alone, even as much as I wish my experience isn’t so common.
Yes, it’s nice to know I’m not the only one too. I think it’s a problem for lots of women. And I also think not enough is being said about it–when I was searching around online, I mostly found lots of articles about gifted children. But what about when we grow up?
This is great. Just reading the headline made me wince, because I’m so worried about giving the wrong impression if I identify myself as “highly intelligent.” For me, I do think people perceive me that way because I have an advanced degree in science and work in a science/technical field. But I have a lot of female friends who are also extremely intelligent, and sometimes I feel like I am the only one who sees it. And I don’t think it’s even a matter of alternate intelligences. Women are straight-up just as smart as men, and Amy I’m sure if you were male people would recognize and describe you as being highly intelligent. I certainly know that male musicians are thought of that way, but, yes, female musicians don’t get the same kind of credit. There is a sort of female dingbat stereotype that we have to overcome, and it’s like if you don’t wear your SAT scores around on a T-shirt or something, people constantly default to judging you on appearance or some other standard (“a good mom”) rather than considering intelligence. (By the way, wordpress has done something strange and the only way it will let me comment is by entering a phony email address. Sorry!)
The headline makes me wince too. And there have been a few comments about how I think I’m smarter than everyone else and how I’m not giving other people enough credit. The thing I think people aren’t understanding is that I don’t think that at all. In fact, I’d forgotten I was really smart for many years—how do you FORGET something like that? Heck if I know, but somehow I managed it. When I moderate how I speak at a party, it’s usually not a conscious act, and when it is, it’s much more about feeling like I shouldn’t draw attention to myself or take the chance of making anyone feel even slightly uncomfortable, not a thought of “oh, these people are all so stupid, why should I even bother?” These are behaviors I am trying to change personally, but they happen more than some people realize.
You make a very interesting point about it being an equal problem across all disciplines, not only the sciences, and while I have to think some more about it, I suspect you may be right. I know in my own assessments I tend to give men more of the benefit of the doubt regarding smartness, another unconscious bias I am going to be working to change.
There is a problem here too that I’d call “the cruelty of statistics”: Given *any* two groupings of people, it is *darn unlikely* that the two will be “just as good” in *any* characteristic that you can come about.
So, if someone points out how Jews (I’m Jewish too, so bear with me) get disproportionate placements in the “wicked smart” category, I’d very much suggest refraining from trying to *explaining away* the disproportion (the historical tendency has been to assume that we cheat, and you know where that leads), and, instead, focusing on emphasizing those non-Jews who do happen to be remembered as wicked smart. So, for every person who is puzzled by Einstein, we might offer some insight on the sheer awesomeness of James Clerk Maxwell, a true Sctosman if there has ever been one, and of Nikola Tesla, the son of a priest in the Serbian Orthodox Church. That might not, and probably will not, even the numbers, but it will certainly bring about a better public awareness of the genius of non Jews, and, following the same logic, of the genius of women.
It certainly would work better than stomping your feet until you hurt.
Oh, I was making a joke about the foot thing. 🙂
I understand your point, but I disagree with the notion that there are just inherently a lot more very smart men than women. In fact, my disagreement with this idea is the reason I wrote this post.
Yes, and after taking some time off this thread I think my reference to the foot was bad form. I apologize
I see I did lost track of the direction you had taken. I got so focused on the original problem, the blogger not finding in women the kind of intelligence that she expects on someone ruling the world. It just run so counter intuitive for me. Perhaps because I’ve always had the British Empire in mind (Queen Elizabeth), my mom (a bank manager), my sister (the evil genius who brought your post to my attention to start with), my closest cousin (an Engineering professor), work (I’ve always had first or second line female managers, and now a CEO), the Army (had female commanders) and so on.
I remember seeing a documentary about how the Romans just couldn’t compute that the tribes in Britain could have female chieftains, and how that led to them disrespecting one and getting themselves in a bloody war in result.
I’ve been getting reports from friends who lived in Europe that women there are from another planet in relation from women in Brazil. I’ve been getting the impression recently that this difference applies to the US as well. I ran recently on a post in which a women from Iceland living in the US reports just that:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ddscm/iama_icelandic_woman_who_has_lived_in_the_us_for/
In fact, I’ve had more than one wicked smart friend here in Brazil complaining that while they get no flak from men from being smart, they do have a hard time with how other women respond to it.
Ricardo, you are misguided. Before feminism, females were oppressed by men and not allowed to do anything, Hence all those female names in HIStory like Cleopatra, Curie etc, are all fictitious concepts of men who wrote HIStory. Now, though, it seems females are oppressed by other females and this is why females still can’t achieve anything of note.
Thank you.
I needed to read this. It’s nice to know I’m not the only one stuffing their intelligence in a box to fit in.
No, I have a feeling that there are many, many women who are doing exactly that. It definitely exists.
I’m a little behind on answering comments (understatement), but I wanted to throw up some links to other conversations about this post for those of you who are interested:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/103389452828130864950/posts/AaWLnB7zpwv
https://plus.google.com/u/0/112859245988068430436/posts/j2ZuDZmqDiQ
https://plus.google.com/u/0/111733475066156856788/posts/UXhSzfRWkcY
https://plus.google.com/u/0/105216491640488683417/posts/W8rhktjzv2e
https://plus.google.com/u/0/105281194557166307713/posts/Zs9j2oU86tu
And my VERY favorite: https://plus.google.com/u/0/116255588673959227206/posts/FfgJZY7X9RG
That’s awesome. Look at what you’ve started! 😀
I understand the point you are making. Really, I do. I see it constantly in smart women who disavow their achievements and claim it was ‘luck’ or ‘not that hard’ or ‘they aren’t that smart really’.
However, your blog makes me deeply uncomfortable for the same reason every article that uses the phrase ‘highly intelligent women/men/chipmunks are…’ It is so easy for a generalisation meant to counteract a fallacy to become prescriptive, ‘highly intelligent women should…’, and finally onerous ‘highly women who do not bear the double burden of intelligence and socially adept are failing…’ How many more things do we need to be to be good women?
I am a highly intelligent woman. I am ambitious, confrontational, and not willing to suffer fools gladly or at all. I am aiming to reach the highest tiers of my chosen profession (academia). I don’t give a flying fuck about social grace or personal growth but about rigour, achievement and knowledge. I am surrounded by similar women (by choice) who are unashamedly bright as hell, and woe betide anyone who tries to patronise or belittle us on account of our gender.
This isn’t always the most diplomatic or easiest of courses. There are many people (men!) in the world I will never be able to interact with because they demand subservience from a woman. I respect those woman who can maintain conventional ‘femininity’ while being smart, but I refuse to see my ‘masculine’ approach (euch) to intellect as being in conflict with being a woman. That only leads to internalised misogyny and self-loathing.
I hear why you’re uncomfortable, and I think what you’re doing is amazing and applause-worthy. Certainly I didn’t mean to imply that all smart women are the same way, although it sounds like it came across that way (the perils of the 500-word blog post, perhaps). And being aware of the all the issues and complexity involved, I don’t think there’s a single right answer of what to do about this as a woman; I think it’s an individual choice.
My goal was to raise awareness of the issues involved and perhaps start a conversation that gets people thinking. I don’t think your approach is in conflict with being a woman at all and admire your strength. However, I do think many people just aren’t familiar with any other ways in which intelligent women present. Hence the post above.
For me personally, I think the solution is going somewhere in the middle. I am working to become more outspoken, to express my opinions more, and to embrace my ambitions for what they are. This conversation has made me aware of where some of my own biases lie.
First, apologies for all the typos. I wrote that really fast!
I know you didn’t mean to imply ‘all’ at all. I have a reflexive reaction to any statement that can be misread as prescriptive, because someone will always misread it that way. I mean, how do you think we got religious intolerance!?
Of course there is no ‘right way’. I would never claim such, because that is precisely the problem with which we are both engaging. I am merely trying to contribute to the debate by discussing the other extreme. If your problem is that you are seen as ‘womanly’ at expense of being ‘wicked smart’, I’m seen as ‘fiercely bright’ at the expense of being a ‘proper girl’. You would be astonished how much vitriol you can incur merely for having the temerity to be opinionated while in possession of a uterus (or while perceived to be, for my trans* sisters).
Perhaps the reasonable position is, as positions so often are, somewhere in the middle. I know I can be overly prickly and defensive. But after years of defending myself I find it hard to want to tone that down. For once, I would like society/the individuals with whom I interact to bend itself to me rather than me always curbing myself for it. Doesn’t happen very often in my line of identity.
But yes: Speak up! Speak loud! And screw anyone who tells you otherwise.
Oh, I’m very well aware of how much vitriol an opinionated woman can receive. All I have to do is look at all the rape and death threats against outspoken women bloggers. Of course a lot of women aren’t going to want to present as traditionally intelligent and have to deal with that sort of thing; it’s not exactly a shocking conclusion, especially when we are socialized from birth to be nice and please people. But it’s the women who are speaking out and sharing their opinions ANYway that have a chance of changing things.
Ah… so that’s where my parents got it wrong. In all their effort to try to make me wear pretty dresses they forgot not to reinforce how awesome it was to be bright, knowledgeable and confident.
Thank you, Amy. I’m going to share this with my son’s school for gifted kids. It is so important that the wicked smart girls are identified as well as the boys and encouraged to display those gifts in whatever ways seem best to them.
“encouraged to display those gifts in *whatever ways seem best to them.*” Oh, well put. That is exactly how I feel.
I thought there already were some wicked smart women running the world: you can’t tell me Hillary Clinton is a troglodyte. Also, Justice Sotomayor likely did not bat her eyelashes to the top. There are also numerous prime ministers and presidents in countries around the world now who are women. It’s true politics needs more equality, still; and the boardroom is woefully lacking, but the smart women are out there, absolutely no doubt!
Meanwhile, as a member of Mensa, I remember being in the minority as a woman at various meetings. It wasn’t that there were no qualified women; but the men were so lecherous, it turned off a lot of the women who might be interested in joining. Things may have changed by now. I haven’t paid dues in several years. Myself, I never tried to “fit in”; but then, I paid for it socially. And professionally.
Another great topic, Amy, with lots of spirited discussion. I guess I’m lucky to have been surrounded by exceptional women throughout life.
I am now in a profession that has made a shift to being predominantly female. While I was in veterinary school, the hallways had class photos from the 50s that had one or two women in them. Now, the ratio is often 85% female, and sometimes higher.
I think this touches on a few points that have been brought up here. One that gets a lot of discussion in veterinary circles is that men aren’t taking these jobs because the cost of veterinary school is similar to other professional schools, but the pay is not. The suggestion (and here’s where half of the potential sexism comes in) is that women are more likely to choose a profession that is personally satisfying, and less worried about money.
And, besides having many peers who are female, I also rely on specialists in many disciplines who are female: ophthalmologists, internists, radiologists, oncologists, pathologists, etc. These specialists are certainly above average in intelligence in the veterinary community, and I think we’re pretty smart overall. 🙂
Interestingly, the people who tend to have trouble with female veterinarians tend to be clients, not other veterinarians. And when this happens, it is often a female client. This goes to the whole societal perception thing. A grizzled guy is given more credibility than a woman in my profession (particularly if she’s young and ‘cute’), even if he’s a dumbass. This is particularly challenging for veterinarians who work on horses. I can put on khakis and a button down shirt and I look professional and credible. My female colleagues have to balance not looking too cute or too masculine. I recognize that this has nothing to do with their intelligence. But that’s my point. It is assumed that I know what I’m talking about, but my female colleagues seem to have to work harder to earn that acknowledgement.
I’ve gone on too long, but the last thing to say is that I know Amy takes some flak by starting these discussions, but I really enjoy reading the blogs and the follow-ups from intelligent people.
Gurn, the exact same thing happens in the tech sector. One of our SS7 experts was an attractive woman with an, unfortunately, pixie-ish voice. She totally knew her stuff, and over email, she couldn’t be beat. Clients that knew her didn’t even question her presence on conference calls. But when we added an Indian telecom client and a Vietnamese client, they didn’t take her seriously. Not even after long association.
I admit to some pushback from our team against them. It’s one of the golden rules that the customer is always right. But when a request came down from upper management to have her communicate with them primarily via email, I was very proud of the gang for saying ‘Nope. She’s the most qualified to be on these calls. We can’t do it without her.’
Being fair to the clients, it was pretty obvious that only a couple of asshats took any issue with her gender. Especially after just a couple of conversations where she’d solve big problems with such finesse and minimal disruption.
I loved this piece. The intelligence of a woman is never – ever! – commented on unless it’s in some silly condescending line from the ‘Talented Little Woman’ School of Non-Thinking. And the less opportunity you have to engage in a real conversation, the more you stop bothering to engage because it ends up being one-way traffic with YOU asking all the questions and the other person talking away self-referentially as you do your womanny listening thing. But I don’t do much of that any more. I’ve become firmer about ending conversations – with woman and with men – that are just space-fillers.
Do you have any advice on raising a female gifted adolescent? My daughter was identified as highly gifted (has strong strengths in mathematics, science, music and chess) but she seems to be depressed? Her temper is difficult to control and she is very misanthropic. She prefers her own space (she does not like to be touched by anyone and finds hugging VERY uncomfortable). Many of her classmates feel intimidated by her and ridicule her because of this behaviour. There is a particular teacher who she does not like and this has caused her to become extremely argumentative about any issue between her and this teacher. Her intelligence is quite spectacular and because she is VERY verbal, you feel chills when you argue with her (she has an ENORMOUS vocabulary and ALWAYS thinks she is right, although most of the time, she is). However, she never complies to the rules at school or the status quo in terms of expectations. She always told me that if she was accepted by her classmates she would feel down right shameful. When I asked her why, she simply stated that “I refuse to bring myself to the level of a mere primate,” (she was nine and a half when she said this!) Her role models have always been Spock, Marie Curie, Terence Tao and just about any child prodigy you can think of. This summer, I am planning to get her serious counselling. (I am VERY nervous!!!) Any advice?
Well, I’m not an expert, by any means…and I’ve never raised a gifted child myself. I think therapy is an excellent idea–make sure you find a therapist who has experience with gifted children (and who is pretty sharp, so your daughter will respect him/her). There has been more attention paid to this in recent years, so there is more information out there now than there used to be. I understand that there are even groups of parents raising gifted children, so you might look for one of those (on or off the internet) to get support for yourself.
Other than that, I can say that your daughter sounds fairly normal. The teenage years are tough even if you can blend in, and if you can’t, they can be downright brutal so it doesn’t surprise me she feels misanthropic. Or that she’s a bit of a–ahem!–free spirit. I agree with Ada that as she grows older, that might very well change. But therapy will give her the tools to deal with it as well.
In the meantime, you might look around to see if you can find a group activity that she is passionate about that would allow her to bond with some peers. (And not necessarily peers AT her school, since she already has preconceived notions about them now.) For me, that was theater. Even if you can find some kind of summer program she’d enjoy, getting her with some of her peers who are also gifted (or also passionate about something she cares about) might help her feel more connected and less isolated. It sounds like she has several interests that might help with this.
Finally, be gentle with yourself. From everything I’ve heard, raising a gifted child can be very tough. All you can do is the best you can.
Annie, speaking as a parent who has raised a gifted son and daughter to adulthood, here’s my two cents:
Gifted children are very self-directed, as least mine were. They had certain passions in life to develop their gifts and I tried to help with that. I felt my job was to clear the obstacles out of the way and help them find the resources they needed. The other thing I could give my gifted child was affirmation. They were going to get flak for being different, and I could help counteract that by making clear that who they were was a good thing to be.
It got tricky though, at adolescence, especially with my daughter, because I was the same gender parent, and she needed to break free of me to become her own person.
I think the therapy can give your daughter the tools to manage her emotions, the depression, and help her interact effectively with other people. Other than that, I think you have to let her muddle through and figure out how to be. She may have to learn some painful lessons. She’s also at a rocky stage in her development. When she gets past high school age, some of this will sort itself out. Maybe all of it.
Hang in there.
[…] Here’s an interesting post that shows how insulated and uniformed an intelligent and sensitive person can be. Amy Sundberg has a post in which she outlines pretty comprehensively the things that keep women from getting the success and recognition men do in, well, she doesn’t really say clearly. […]
[…] STANDARDS – Intelligence and Success and Leadership: Here’s an interesting post that shows how insulated and uniformed an intelligent and sensitive person can be. Amy Sundberg has […]
Hi Amy,
Have just read your post, and found it very interesting and well presented. I hold three degrees (BSc Hons Biochemistry, MSc Environmental Chemistry, and MBA); I chose to stay at home to raise our children (one has special needs) and I adore it. However, while being a stay-at-home-mum, I learned it is the perception of others, which poses the biggest problems into woman and how our intelligence is categorised.
The very nature of the role of housewife/homemaker/carer brings its own prejudices and judgement. Having children, and being a homemaker can seem (to some) like a contradiction in terms, if a woman is educated. This topic was lightly touched upon on a discussion programme, where the question posed was:
‘Are you smart, or do you have children?’
The question was spawned from an article in a tabloid paper, which claimed that the more educated you are, the less likely you are to have children.
From personal experience, after having children, academics, skills, and experiences seem to fade into insignificance, and at times, I can feel highly patronised, and my credibility (confidence in my knowledge) called into question many times.
In your blog, you discussed woman who ‘hide’ their intelligence, on the flip-side, we have women who have to fight to hold on to it.
What are your thoughts?
Elleana
Any other female members interested in creating a “brain pool” that others could draw on – at a cost, of course – for advice, solutions, analyzation, etc? If so, contact me via sswellborn@yahoo.com and let’s get it going. I volunteer to be the organizer.
Lord Jock Almighty 1st here, and I totally agree with the article . It’s a pity that so many rules and reg are made by men and not enough women .More women More balance .I trully believe the world would be a better place if women were allowed to have their say .
Thank you for writing about this. There was a big brouhaha over a similarly written article by a man a couple of years ago. He said that women don’t get the recognition they deserve because they don’t toot their own horns enough. We try very hard to fit in and not rock the boat, especially when we are intelligent. I remember hearing that men don’t like women who are “too smart”. Luckily I found one who does appreciate my intelligence!
[…] A Highly Intelligent Woman Speaks Out On Tuesday I read a blog post in which a female blogger made a list of people in her acquaintance she’d put in charge of governing society if she was a monarch. All the people on her list were ma… […]
Thank you for writing this! I concur with everything you have said and I’m going to include a link to it on my e-article about what it feels like to have a high IQ. It’s not easy! Here is a link to my article. And, again, thank you. http://www.squidoo.com/high-iq
Thank you! You have expressed so many of the feeling my family and I have felt so often. Glad to know that others also feel this way and understand our dilemma.
A link to your blog was posted on Twitter. It was perfect timing. I am a wicked smart female in education leadership. I stopped pretending I was average just to fit in about 15 years ago. I am much happier being myself, but not everyone else is pleased; in fact, some are down right hostile and abusive. Many people come to me for my expertise, and I share my gifts with them freely. We have laws against all kinds of discrimination and bullying, but not for mistreatment of those who are high IQ. I tolerate being accused that because I have my hand in so many different topics, I am a control freak. Or being told that because I know so many different topics in depth, other people feel stupid next to me and how they feel is my fault. Last Friday, I was told I should behave like “Sue”–an airhead who is most unintelligent, because everyone likes her. Well, not everyone…. I am still fuming that anyone who is supposed to be well educated would think it appropriate to tell a high IQ female that she should pretend she is not intelligent. I believe this reflects more on the intolerant around me than it does on me. And I would never change who I am for them.
Brava! I, too, love this post and can relate to the way wicked smart women try to “fit in” socially (having done many of them myself). This is a wonderful discussion.
I am 23 years old. I took the Stanford Binet when I was 8 and I passed it enough to qualify for Mensa. My equally intelligent highschool sweetheart died our senior year in a fiery car collision. He played guitar and we could geek out over any topic. We always had conversations. We contemplated everything. Ever since then I’ve not had any ambitions. I didn’t go to college. I recently tried and a school financial advisor said that I didn’t qualify for anything. I don’t like it. I feel like I was meant to be doing something better. Better for more than just myself but other people as well. I’m so bored though. Pretty sure my IQ has dropped because of all this. I just wish I could find someone who matched me with intellect who doesn’t have the ego.
At least I got it off my chest. I feel a little better. The topic was how everyone is ignorant of intelligent women. I don’t know. I don’t see the point in hiding it. People would then truly like you for who you are rather than just who you showed them you are. I have an issue with people who rub it in others faces. That ego brings so much negatively to smart people, gifted, the whole group. I try not to hide myself. I’ll make comments and share my opinions, but when I’m questioned on it, I explain it to where it can be understood. I teach people things. I believe everyone has the potential if they are willing. Help those who help themselves. I’m stuck where I’m at so I can’t do anything great with my intelligence. I’m not going to discover the god particle or be the next Steve jobs. What’s the point with being smarter than everyone else? It’s more of an annoyance to be so aware of things around me than anything. I’m not going to ignore it though. Sharing smart things with people is all I can do. No, I don’t have any true friends because of this, but I have plenty of associations that accept me for all that I am.
Oh geez. That was really off topic. Sorry.
Geez, I feel like I got off topic again. I think I repeated myself a few times. I hate repeating myself, but I don’t have time to reread or edit this. Lololol. ^_^
I find myself much more comfortable showing my intelligence at work. It is rare that I feel uncomfortable about being that part of myself. There are a few places that it causes problems – questions- I ask a lot of questions and some feel that it is questionning them rather than inquiring. And then others are intimidated – let’s just face it – no matter if you have brains or beauty you are liable to intimidate someone in your lifetime. In my personal life I am much more restrained in showing intelligence. Much more restrained. The people around me are not dumb. Please do not take that as what I mean. They are smart about other things that I know little of. So even if I do have a thought on the topic I am much more hesitant to voice it. Also, the difference in vocabulary is night & day! I found myself censoring what words I used in my personal life and then paying some attention to use bigger words in my professional life. When I talked with a friend in the same industry she also noted that this use of “bigger words” was a norm in the professional world – you don’t sound “smart” if you don’t use big words.
Thank you, Amy. As a woman in my mid-fifties, I was continually, as now, being told to “fit in.” God gave me my 99.5 percentile IQ, and it has been wasted, due to societal pressures to which I have succumbed. I am aware I could have handled it differently, but was so ingrained through my childhood to stay in the background and just get married. That never quite worked out. Ha. I think there are many women who could have greatly contributed, but were too scared. I still have great ideas, but because I have not been successful in business and am not wealthy, they go nowhere. No pity party here, I am sorry for those who have not listened.Again, great article.
As someone who is usually socially classed as a woman, and also highly intelligent, I would like to respectfully disagree with your point that the sciences are valued over the arts and humanities. I attend a selective school, where those selected are in the top two percent, at least for the cachement area. If your particular area of intelligence happens to be science, you are thought of as a weirdo or a ‘nerd’, whearas those who can draw beautifully or write music well are much more apprecieated for their skills. It has almost become a necessity of being ‘part of the crowd’, to be hopeless in science and to profess a love of something ‘cool’ like music. Although I have never been a fan of social expectations so that doesn’t affect me too much.
Dear Amy and Ada,
Thank you for your advice. I can’t wait to begin therapy! (I mean for her, of course).
I just noticed Julie’s post. I must say, you sound a lot like my older sister. She was one of those really smart whiz kids. She is a botanist now. (Although she wanted to be a theoretical physicist- oh well).
Please revisit this post often. I am a woman of science and yet who listens? Often i have been told “we won’t hire you because you are a woman.” It has always been self-esteem issues with me. And so many women.
But as a teacher, I especially addressed self-esteem issues with my students.I was inspired by Pythaogaras’ Trousers by Margaret Wertheim, because i had a fear of physics. I ended up teaching Physics and math, the two bugaboos I seem to have. wertheim concludes that women are needed in Physics to keep it soft and real. I like being a realist.
Late to the party, but I really liked this. It’s hard to find well-written pieces on the subject because it is something “we” are not allowed to talk about. I also like the term “wicked smart” better than “scary smart” (what, are we monsters under the bed?). That is, of course, assuming that you are using “wicked” in the New England-y “wicked good” way and not the “Wicked Witch of the West” way.
sorry, but you seem to be passing of an ideology as intelligence.
Really, dude? You’re gonna be *that* guy?
The average person–male or female–is average. That’s why they call it average.
Do you meet less intelligent women than I do? Because I meet a great many women who are sharp as knives. Maybe you hang in the wrong circles, perhaps. But do you meet many intelligent women that you don’t notice are intelligent, because they keep it to themselves due to social pressures and maybe the fact that they don’t think it’s worth trying to reeducate you, to take the blinkers off that you’re obviously wearing? I’d say that’s rather likely.
Let’s put it this way: If, the moment that someone looked at you, from their first glance you knew they had dismissed the possibility that you might be intelligent, to what extent would you bother to demonstrate your intelligence around the bigots who made such a summary decision? And, even if you did attempt to demonstrate your smarts, do you really think that would change their view of yourself and others like you? Maybe they would come to acknowledge that you are somewhat intelligent in the way that you had worked so hard to demonstrate–but then they would call you a “one-trick pony” as well, being unable to see the other ways in which your intelligence might take form.
Instead, however, you are lucky enough to live on the side of the gender fence where most people make the assumption that you are intelligent until you prove otherwise. This gives you the opportunity to make stupid comments without being thought of as stupid in every aspect of your life. As a woman, say one stupid thing and many people will be sure that you’re an idiot in every aspect of your life, but say a hundred smart things and those same people will dismiss them as flukes.
In the future, I would suggest that you attempt to view everyone you meet as intelligent until they have proven otherwise many times over. You may be surprised to discover that what was keeping you from noticing intelligent women was how you had come to assume that they were stupid.
Sorry, Rich, I removed the comment you responded to due to its misogyny.
I want this comment thread to be a safe space for intelligent women to talk, tell their stories, and feel like part of a community. I’ll delete all inappropriate comments.
Don’t like it? Find somewhere else to hang out. Thanks.
Removed Rich rather than remove Nick?
Nope, I removed the comment Rich responded to, so now his response lacks the context of the original comment. Rich’s comment is still here.
No need to apologize to me, Amy, but cheers to your politeness.
Ha! Thank you, Amy. I have subscribed to updates on this post and it has been interesting. As a woman who is a member of Mensa, here are a few more thoughts:
I find that many people do not even know how to recognize true intelligence. They can only relate to what they, themselves, can comprehend. If you are a woman of high intelligence and are not valued as such, you are probably interacting with others who are not able to identify with your way of perceiving and thinking. Or, another way to view it is they do not possess the intelligence to understand your intelligence.
In addition, I have found, interestingly, that it can be to your advantage to not be recognized as an intelligent woman. Not my preference, but it does give you the opportunity, sometimes, to fly under the radar, so to speak, and accomplish things in spite of the way you are viewed by others.
Exactly!
“Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.” – Sun Tzu
I think you may have misunderstood. I was responding to a comment that is no longer here, and I was trying to be polite. But, another way to say it might have been: “Your arrogance is stunning. Perhaps you don’t possess the intelligence to recognize intelligence. But don’t think for a moment that your opinion of me will keep me down because while you are busy discounting my abilities, I’ll be off your radar and, in spite of you, busy accomplishing exactly what I intended. That’s what intelligence can do.”
I would never feign weakness, but if that is his opinion, I may as well do an end run rather than try to tackle him.
I don’t think I misunderstood. There is no need to feign weakness when dealing with these types of opponents. But if they think of you as inferior, just do nothing and let them. It can be to your advantage (you said that, right?).
Thank you Amy and Nancy, and many of the other thoughtful responders on this post, for sharing your experiences and creating a community where wicked-intelligent women can recognize themselves and feel a sense of belonging in a world where (the majority of the time, anyhow) it feels like we are outcasts.
I’m reminded of a beautiful, metaphorical re-telling of The Ugly Duckling fairy tale by Jungian psychoanalyst Clarissa Pinkola Estes in her two-part audio lecture series, Theatre of the Imagination. You may remember the story from your childhoods: A duckling is born into a family of ducks, but there is something odd about her – she looks different than the others, and they hate her for it. They peck her and chase her from the farmyard, and she wanders through the rest of the story, trying to find a place where she belongs. At one point she sees some beautiful swans flying overhead, and thinks, “Oh, how exquisite! If only I were one of them.” And of course by the end of the story she looks down to see her reflection in the pond where she is swimming, and realizes that she is exactly what she most longs to be. And that there is, indeed, a place for her – and a species with whom she belongs.
This thread feels like that pond, for me.
I have spent the last few months trying to pick up the dropped threads of my life – trying to figure out how I got to be where I am, and how I can get to the place where I want to be. I was identified as having a high I.Q. in childhood (I skipped Grade 4, was in a gifted program from Grades 5 through 8, finished a five-year high school academic program in four years, and went on to acquire two Bachelors degrees “just for fun”, because I loved learning).
But during that time I was also badly bullied (even in the gifted program, where I was surrounded by children equally as intelligent as I) and, due to other circumstances in my life (childhood sexual abuse and a codependent family situation), reflexively withdrew from “normal” social interactions, and felt like a permanent outsider. In the intervening years (I’m in my mid-40s now), I unconsciously dumbed myself down, taking a number of undemanding, low-paying jobs that seemed to allow me to fly below the radar of the people who would perpetuate my abuse. (That strategy didn’t work so well for me, BTW.) LOL
Thankfully, in recent years I’ve fallen into employment where I can use many of my intellectual and creative abilities, and as I’ve been actively healing from my past abuse, I’ve also gained the strength to stand up and be seen as different – to enjoy my natural skills, and be proud of the things I can do with them. And as I have started to own my intelligence and discuss it with others, I have also experienced what Nancy has described – that people who aren’t as intelligent as I have no way to comprehend my intelligence. It can be a very lonely and frustrating place to be.
It feels less lonely here, among these women (and the men who love them). May we all feel the satisfaction of reaching to the edges of our abilities, and accomplishing things that feel important or valuable to us. And may we be resilient enough to bend-but-not-break when those who don’t understand us try to attack or abuse us. Let the attacks and abuse fall off us like water off a duck’s back, so to speak. 🙂
Namaste.
wow, now that explains why i was so jealous when guys in my class were discouraging my competence in maths and science, saying that these subjects only come natural to them and i will only excel in in literacy and life orientation… that still makes me angry when a guy says that. i feel that women are blessed with both iq and eq and should never lower their standards in any situation.
A great artcle that I can relate too. I am possibly intelligent. I have a first degree but am definately ‘socially intelligent.’ This is often a hindrance as I have an ability to read and understand other people and the dynamics in the workplace. I daily ‘dumb down ‘ to fit in but find my daily life frustrating as a woman. I value when someone ‘gets me ‘ but this is rare. I think that women are definately taken less seriously than men in the workplace regardless of what is being said. Unfortunately.
[…] A Highly Intelligent Woman Speaks Out […]
So it is now “society” that is holding females back. “Society” is made up of people. So people, both men and females, now hold females back from achieving their full potential. It’s everyone else’s fault. Females are never to blame. That’s why females have still achieved nothing in comparison to men. Females have had an eternity to invent things and build things and make empires. Apparently, females are so good at management that every company should have at least one.
What you highly intelligent females don’t seem to realise is that whoever makes the most money gets the promotion. This is called “free capitalist enterprise”. Apparently, tho, females are unable to reach these giddy heights on their own. Females are unable to create global empires. Men do it all the time. You can count the number of females on one hand. Yet these super intelligent females who are naturally super communicative and naturally able to run countries and corporations and have a natural urge to merge who are naturally better managers don’t ever seem to be able to put their super skills into practice. Maybe it’s because it’s all lies and females are virtually useless. Like females say they can do 2 things simultaneously and do them each as well as if they had done one at a time. This is nothing more than outright lies and not one psychiatrist in the world would agree with it. But that doesn’t stop females making these fairy tales into their “reality”
If females were actually intelligent they would solve the problem. They don’t. Females just introduce yet another third party to blame for their ineffectiveness.
The greatest piece of technology ever produced on this planet to date is the Hadron Collider. For all the resources poured into the project it has given us a return on our investment which is simply outlandish. We now know how many theories are incorrect. We now know that Professor Doctor Higgs’ calculations in the 60’s were correct. Mr Higgs was present in the lecture theatre when the second confirmation came through. He was sure his calculations were correct but did not expect it to be proven in his lifetime. Amazingly, there were no intelligent females on the project. One would think that when spending those sort of resources the best of the best would be warranted. And they were. And still no females. And why? Well, it’s society (meaning other females) that are holding females back because females have to be unambitious and talk drivel instead of intelligent conversations that men have. Intelligent females can’t have these conversations with other females because other females are as thick as 2 bricks. So intelligent females must dumb down their conversation. Funny that no intelligent females have ever thought to go against the mold but are forced to comply with it. This is yet another excellent example of why there are few females at the top.
I have been reading some of your findings and I don’t disagree with any of them.
I am preparing a speech for Toastmasters based on my own experiences. I won’t bore you with much of it but I’m including the first couple of paragraphs.
I have always found that when I describe a woman as “intelligent” my listener seldom or ever knows what to say by way of a reply.
I would be very thankful for a comment from you.
Thanking you,
Mattie Lennon.
http://www.mattielennon.com.
*******************************************************************************************
“A girl with brains ought to do something with them besides think”.
(“Gentlemen Prefer Blondes.”)
Say a woman is ugly, beautiful, plain or even homely and you’ll get a plethora of agreement and disagreement from both sexes. Describe one of the fairer gender as “stupid” and the reaction will not be unanimous one way or the other. “Plain”, “efficient”, “house proud”, “sexually focused”, “man-mad” and “upwardly-mobile” will be met with anything from full concurrence to vicious contradiction. You might even, at times, get a belt in the mouth.
Have you ever said “that one has a powerful brain”? In the words of Padraig Flynn, ‘ try it sometime.’
Refer to a female as “intelligent” and you’ll be met with the same poker-faced indifference as if you had described Enda Kenna as a great statesman. I can guarantee you’ll get neither a “she certainly is” or a “no, she’s not” reply. Any comment about a woman’s physical attributes, attitudes, or social traits will cause anything from grudging accord to lively discussion. But any reference to her IQ and you’re in no-comment country. If you comment on the superior intellect of a male you will get anything from a begrudging, concise, if rhetorical, “what good is it to him?” to a diatribe about his shortcomings and track record with maybe a bit of, derogatory information about his pedigree thrown in. But you will be answered!
Thank you for commenting, and I hope your speech went well!
I am lucky to have many people around me who are totally comfortable describing women as intelligent (or replying to such comments). But I know that is not the case everywhere. It sounds like you’ve experienced quite the opposite.
[…] example, it is always amazing to me how angry people have gotten over my essay about intelligent women. They are upset because they don’t think women can possibly be as intelligent as men (seriously, […]
Awesome blog post. Thank you! I also very much appreciated the comment stating that with some people (often women) you really need to know them for a little while before you get a fair idea of just how brilliant they are. In fact, I know lots of highly intelligent women but only one who radiates her intelligence in much the same way as our male friends and colleagues often do. For that very reason she always gets a lot of respect from everyone, which she has definitely earned! But for sure, I know many other extraordinary women, who merely choose to show their abilities in more subtle ways. Even if they too have university degrees, top grades and perfectly fine careers, many people would probably on first sight not notice their achievements as much.
Yes to all of it! I have been told all of my life by friends, mates, employers how unusually smart I am – but it was never said as a compliment – more of a statement made with disdain of how different I am than most other people. I hate to say this but as a woman, intelligence is generally a curse. As you indicated in your post, we have to work so hard to fit in with other people, to hide our knowledge and to pretend to be interested in the banal just to be accepted. I have always had plenty of people who respect me, but few who like me – and the social rejection by less intelligent people just makes you withdraw more into your own world where you spend time learning about something, taking on a new skill, and generally perpetuating the problem of being threatening to other people.
I have an iq of 135. I am largely ignored by peope. If I was a man, people would be listening.
Me too.
Although I know many of the things on this post now, I wish I’d known them earlier. In my family, intelligence has always been respected, regardless of gender. But in the outside world, be it school, college or a social platform, being an intelligent woman feels more like a curse than a gift. Living in a super patriarchal country such as India does not help.
It is shameful how other women are more often the ones look down upon intelligent women. I have many guy friends but few girlfriends. Another notion here (and perhaps elsewhere, too) is that a woman simply cannot be superior to a man in technical and/or leadership skills, because that’s “a man’s job”. I’m in college currently and I have seen that during group projects, always, ALWAYS some dude is the leader, even though there might be a more efficient female in the group. The possibility is simply not considered because, being a female, she “naturally cannot handle a large group and get work done”. It is funny how a woman giving suggestions is among things that are socially frowned upon. Well, not everyone is like that, but the majority is; those who are not seldom stand up to it anyway. It is suppressing to work in such an environment where you have to constantly dumb it down.
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Hi everyone, I just stumbled on this blogpost. I am a woman in my mid 50’s. I have always been considered very intelligent and have been very successful in the male dominated field of aviation. I have made many mistakes trying to ” fit in”. I also fell into the pattern of trying to please others or “dumb myself down”.
In the end, I was playing the role of a victim. A few years ago, I chose to not be a victim any more. I found that once I made that choice, people changed how they reacted with me. They were more accepting of me.
I found out a valuable lesson I would like to share. It was never really about my intelligence, instead, It was about how I felt about myself. Once I got out of my own way, I was able to really step into my full potential and all the little issues went away. Many are the very same issues that I have read here on this blog.
Consider this. You are just fine the way you are. Your outer world reality is only a reflection of what is going on inside of your inner world. How you relate to yourself or an issue is the issue. You do have a choice… then your outer world will change and you will be living a life filled with purpose and experience being very happy.
I am very happy I found this blog and could share. If you have a dream… make sure it has a happy ending! Just sayin!
Thank you so much for taking the time to share, Susan.
Sexism is currently woven into the fabric of our society, which really sucks. But I agree that working on our own self esteem can make us individually a lot happier and more able to achieve what we wish to achieve, regardless of the outside world.
why bother trying to please society? ok, I’m not a Mensa member, but i would consider myself to be intelligent, and besides, I’d rather be single and accept my knowledge, than hide it for anyone! i am sick of women only being valued for being some living blow – up doll and criticized if they are fat, or too intelligent! society can shove it! I’m proud to be bright!
I like your outlook. Kudos to you for being positive and proud of being an intelligent person. 🙂
Thanks Amy for this blog and everyone for your comments. Obviously this is a subject worthy of deep conversation and certainly more than a few dissertations! Sharing this with my networks, for sure.
Thanks, Delia! It is certainly a topic I am still thinking over.
I feel this loud and clear. Interestingly, in my relationship my partner is the sensitive, emotional one and I’m the techy. I’ve handled it differently at times; sometimes I’ve delighted in the paradox of being a stunning goddess at the top of a computer engineering class, other times I’ve quit my job and bowed to the irritated pressure of co-workers. I think it’s worsened when I’m an exceptionally outgoing female among exceptionally quiet males. But looking back, I see other women and men coming into our department and like many activists for equality, the brutal path I waged is validated. The newcomers respect me and extend that to the women coming after me, who reach for the confidence and opportunities I fought so hard to unlock.
I found this post because I was searching for “intelligent teacher blogs”. I’m a middle school gifted Humanities teacher and recently was sent to a teacher blog as part of a class I’m taking. The male blogger listed 6 blogs that he followed at the bottom of the post, and all of the bloggers were male. I was very irritated by that, and found you 🙂 I agree with all of the things you have said — I have many thoughts that are too complicated for a mere comment, but thanks for the catalyst!
Really late to the comments here but I just stumbled upon your blog in one of my search-google-for-solace-because-I-feel-so-alone moments. It was so nice to hear my life described by someone else… It helped with the aforementioned alone thing. I learned at a young age that no one cared if I was smart, and worse, that it made many people uncomfortable, jealous and generally insecure. I really did not like making people feel that way (yes, I know, I didn’t MAKE them, and I was by no means obnoxious, but it sure felt/feels that way) so I learned to hide. Being a very bright cookie, I learned really well. I can blend into virtually any culture, domestic or foreign, in a short period if time. I became an expert on what was expected if me. It is only now in my thirties that I find myself searching for how to reprogram my mind to make peace with my brain and how to fit that into the wife and mother life I chose. For any parent or teacher reading this, just one person who loves the fact that a young girl is brilliant and celebrates it might be all that girl needs to thrive instead if hide. Catch them young. The more brilliant and sensitive they are, the younger they may start to hide if there is no one to encourage them.
[…] Here’s an interesting post that shows how insulated and uniformed an intelligent and sensitive person can be. Amy Sundberg has a post in which she outlines pretty comprehensively the things that keep women from getting the success and recognition men do in, well, she doesn’t really say clearly. […]